I’m Mark Erjavec. In this episode, I sit down with Travis Renville, tribal chairman and visionary leader, to unpack a journey that stretches from personal growth to international diplomacy. What starts as a story of being mistaken for “the elder” at a ceremony evolves into a bold proposal: formal diplomatic relations between Native American tribes and the Vatican.
Reconnecting After 20 Years
Travis and I have known each other for nearly two decades. Over that time, both of us have grown—raising families, pursuing education, and shifting from deal-making to more mission-driven work. For Travis, that evolution sharpened his focus on sovereignty, culture, and healing. For me, it brought a deeper appreciation of community and legacy.
Rome, the Vatican, and a Personal Renaissance
A recent trip together to Rome was transformative. Travis studied Renaissance art and history during his university years, and walking through the Vatican’s galleries brought it all full circle. For him, it wasn’t just about art and architecture—it became a metaphor for a renaissance within tribal communities themselves. Emerging from centuries of trauma, there’s a sense of rebirth, accelerated by education, technology, and now global platforms like this podcast.
Turtle Island & the Doctrine of Discovery
Travis reframes history by calling North America Turtle Island, echoing Indigenous tradition. That framing matters, because it challenges the Eurocentric lens. He then connects it to the Doctrine of Discovery—papal decrees that justified colonization by declaring non-Christians expendable. Standing in the Vatican, surrounded by maps that tracked European expansion, Travis felt the weight of that legacy—and the urgency to address it at its source.
The Paradox of Wealth and Loss
The Vatican’s immense wealth—art, gold, marble—contrasted sharply with the losses suffered by Indigenous peoples. Travis reflects on the irony of seeing treasures from around the world centralized in Rome, while Native communities still fight for land, language, and dignity. The imbalance is not just historic; it is ongoing.
Sovereignty and Parallels to the Vatican
Here’s where the conversation takes its sharpest turn. Travis points out that the Vatican is a sovereign state within Italy. Native reservations are sovereign nations within the United States. If sovereignty is real, why shouldn’t tribes build direct diplomatic ties with the Vatican—just as other nations do?
A Roadmap to Diplomacy
Travis doesn’t stop at vision—he lays out steps:
- Pass tribal resolutions at the district and council level
- Build grassroots support and coalition backing (NCAI, Coalition of Large Tribes)
- Engage U.S. diocesan structures as an entry point
- Establish a permanent liaison in Rome to advocate for tribal interests
- Push for recognition and even treaty-like agreements, this time drafted on tribal terms
This is not a theoretical conversation. It’s pragmatic, legal, and entirely possible.
Healing Through Faith and History
Travis highlights Saint Kateri Tekakwitha, the only Native American saint canonized by the Catholic Church. She could serve as a bridge—symbolic and spiritual—for a dialogue rooted in healing. From there, the discussion expands to boarding school trauma, intergenerational wounds, and how real reconciliation could begin with formal recognition and direct diplomatic engagement.
New Treaties, On Our Terms
The vision isn’t just recognition—it’s resetting the rules of engagement. For centuries, treaties were drafted to strip tribes of land and rights. Travis imagines treaties with the Vatican that protect culture, support sovereignty, and empower Indigenous voices in global forums.
Why Now
Timing matters. With a new Pope in leadership, with tribes having access to lawyers, diplomats, and global platforms, and with Indigenous voices rising worldwide, this may be the first real chance in centuries to rewrite the relationship between Native peoples and one of the oldest sovereign entities on earth.
This episode is about more than history. It’s about resetting power, reframing sovereignty, and pursuing actionable healing. Travis Renville doesn’t just share stories—he outlines a playbook.
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